[13.7+] Kaostanza's Talon Jungle Guide (CHALLENGER) (2023)

[13.7+] Kaostanza's Talon Jungle Guide (CHALLENGER)

By RaidenKaos

PLEASE READ

NOTE: The written chapters in this guide are "outdated". Some still cover the principles of Talon jungle however for things like pathing and any thing related to Jungle that has been changed, please ignore. For builds/setups, use the MOBAFIRE visual set-up guide above and read their notes.

This is not a complete guide. Probably 60-70% complete, text-wise. I will be adding stuff here from time to time, reusing and updating tips from my unreleased 40-pages long guide I made in S11 when Talon was probably the best Jungler. Also apologies for any typos or confusing things, some of the text is almost a year old however most things should be relevant regardless.

Unfortunately, this time I will not be having any fancy graphics or embed videos (yet?).

Also, watch me live here: https://www.twitch.tv/Kaos_Angel

INTRO

I’m Kaostanza aka Kaos Angel. I have been a Challenger Jungler in EUW since Season 5 and invented and mained Talon Jungle since Season 8. In Season 11, I achieved and ended Rank 1 [1747 LP] on the account Raiden Shogun C2. In Season 12, I hit Rank 1 [1623 LP] on TwTv Kaos Angel mid-season, and at the time of this writing I am also the current Rank 1 [1679 LP] on John Wick IV, now renamed to Kaostanza C6.

You can find my accounts here: https://lolpros.gg/player/kaostanza-1

1-Line TLDR

The simplest way to play Talon jungle and avoid being punished is to not let your team distract you and play strictly by your R cooldown.

Strengths

+High AD damage dealer, single target + AoE
+Stealth threat - use wisely
+Weaker early but high potential mid game, decent late
+Never OOM therefore able to stay on the map a lot longer
+Flexible runes and builds, utility items as last resort
+Fast mid-game farming, both camps and waves
+Decent comeback potential early/mid
+Fast movement on the map
+Easily punish over-extending enemies
+Fairly fast solo Dragon and Herald (avoid solo Dragon if 1st Herald is an option)
+Independent and team-oriented playstyle are both effective
+Lots of combos & very fun once you get the hang of Talon

Weaknesses

-Squishy early/mid game therefore loses a lot of matchups
-Very reliant on his R to minimise risks and maximise kill potential
-Resource-greedy playstyle can throw harder or tilt teammates;
.....+this is however very good to learn how to carry, being the liability
-Difficult team fighting late game
-A lot of SUPPORT champs counter him
-Zhonyas and Exhaust exist
-Damage is conditional (usually need passive proc)
-Clunky / awkward / buggy kit

Itemisation

Basically,

Ghostblade first every game in 99% of your games. Prowler's if disturbingly behind, Eclipse first no longer after lethality nerf (hurts clear too much, already suffers from 0 haste).

Prowler's vs squishy (usually ranged as a bonus)
Eclipse vs melee

Pathing

Pathing Decision?

PATH & PLAY for YOURSELF. A simple yet effective way to play the game is to path towards what you think will net you kills with minimal risk of dying.

Talon's early game plan is always this - kills. Talon's first clear is really weak so, unless you are committing to an unhealthy full clear, you want to path to where kills seem quite easy to pick up. This could be pathing towards prio for a favourable 2v2/3v3, a dive or for a safer invade.

Usually botlane is the go-to as it is highly volatile and top-lane champs are hard to deal with unless they are also trading like crazy. Kills greatly accelerate your early game scaling as Talon relies heavily on AD ratios to deal damage, and kills are essentially a Long Sword and more because you usually help shove afterwards, though this is mainly for XP and group resets.

Remember to utilise Talon's ability to evade vision with E, so keep track of where they are warding early game to play around it and gain the element of surprise.

Recommended 3 Camp Clear for Early Pressure (UPDATED 06/04/23)

The best - healthiest and fastest - path to enable your early presence is Raptors --> Red --> Krugs (smite Large Krug). This gets you level 3 without a leash and is also the healthiest start for Talon; you may need to rehearse the clear in Practice Tool.

After Red Buff, you have to make a judgement on to what to do here depending on current lane states, varying from clearing Wolves, Gromp, Blue, Counter-/Ganking, Invading. If you are on Blue Team and want to gank bot, you can also opt for Raptors --> Red --> Krugs, though be wary you will be ganking at 50-60% HP. It's a flip but with good set-up it can be a quick cheap way to spawn a 2nd Long Sword.

Be sure to cover the Red entrance by standing near Raptors wall (not too deep without Flash) to see if enemies are going to ward or rush an invade. Ward the Red entrance or Red Buff if you think the enemies will late invade. Cheesing will happen every so often so be ready to adapt your pathing and prioritize hitting Level 3 so you can out manouver the enemy jungler on the map, going for blind spot ganks to recover from deficits.

Another answer to an obvious invade is to mirror the invade, as long as your team can control the area Level 1. Talon does not mind invading because it's relatively easy to hit Level 3 if the invade is uncontested. You can do Red, Raptors, to your Gromp for example (if dangerous to stay), otherwise their whole Red/Blue quadrant. Just take into account Talon's Level 1 is quite weak. It is also possible to sneak a Raptors, Red, Krugs clear if you know the enemy jungler will full clear and you secured vision control in the Red quadrant, otherwise it will just result in punishment or vertical jungling. Remember, this clear also leaves you at half HP or so.

Red Side Quadrant with Leash

Red (Leash) --> Krugs --> Raptors . . . *mid-lane is Plan B/cover mid
Red (Leash) --> Raptors --> Krugs . . . *better sequencing for next dedicated clear

This strategy was something I used to do in most games back in Season 8. It was the only viable early game path for most games due to Talon's awful clear. You only want to do this if the lane you leashed looks very gankable at Level 3 (their 2) or at the very least Mid looks worth ganking. Ward the enemy Raptors, enough to cover the brush, not too deep to put yourself in danger (ask teammate for help). It is fine if they see it but obviously not good if they clear it.

The main idea to take a gamble and early gank the lane that leashed for you. This clear sets you up by not having the laner push in, be more healthy and fast for Level 3 and also makes the gank a lot less unexpected. Ideally you take the kill(s) and shove for a dirk, though backing with two early Long Swords is also very good.

Mid is also an option if the original plan just looks horrible, which was why back then I used to do Red --> Krugs --> Raptors in most games as it was more adaptable, should you have the need to move onto the other side of the map without having to recall and lose a lot of time.

When you choose this pathing you should be ready to react to how the enemy jungler is pathing. As mentioned before, the Raptors ward should help you a lot. Most common cases:

[*] Enemy Jungler is starting Blue, most likely doing a full clear. Just reset and take your Blue quadrant, don't bother contesting Crab if it's unfavourable - it won't help them spike.
[*] Enemy Jungler started Red and is pathing to the lane you to intend to gank. You spot them on the Raptors ward. This is the most dangerous situation because, depending on the leash, they may be just as fast or faster than you to the lane you are ganking. You can still flip the gank and hope they aren't in time to help, which btw is the maximum risk and reward. If you have a good 3v3 counter gank, i.e. your laners aren't squishy/low and enemies don't have a great engage, it is an option.
[*] Enemy Jungler is doing their Red (Red-Krugs-Raptors) quadrant then they will sometimes fall into the bait of vertical jungling (ping mid when you spot at Raptors just incase it's a mid gank). The reason why it's a bait is because Talon can no longer even play around the lane he just ganked for the next 1-2 minutes without losing a lot on XP and having a lot less terrain to play with using E. Now of course, if your laners around the Blue quadrant have no prio, you can't and don't want to do anything so you don't need to contest it. Instead, just use the prio you should have got from your Level 3 play to take their own Blue Side. If you do have lane prio then it is very possible you reset and either kill them at Blue/Gromp or make them waste a lot of time as losing Blue buff means nothing compared to tempo advantage.

When to Full Clear? (Outdated, avoid anyway)

Full clear is essentially removing yourself from the map for almost 4 minutes as Talon must commit to the full clear due to the 2nd point on W at Level 3. This is usually when your teammates draft absolutely useless picks early game and so you have to scale and let the enemy jungler make their move(s), however you can opt for a full clear if you don't want to risk a proactive start to the game and go for a safer reset. If for some reason there is a free kill after the 6th camp, you can go for it. First Crab is not valuable, though it wouldn't hurt to take a free one as your camps won't respawn yet if you insta-reset.

Either way, you usually want to reset and gank the lane you are pathing back to for the 7th (excluding crab) camp or mid-lane, especially if your Support can help turn any tough situation around. The best scenario is a quick kill and helping to shove the lane - you now accelerated your levelling to 6 a lot and can possibly hit it after the 2nd full clear. Do not waste too much time or your early respawned camps will be put to waste and the enemy jungler has a window to counter jungle, should you path linearly again.

Starting from Blue Golem, a full clear without a leash should be complete around 3:20 with ~50% HP. A full clear with a leash should be complete around 3:12 with ~70% HP. Decide whether you want to reveal or conceal your starting camp.

How to Gank... Literally

How to Gank Early Game
Talon’s ganks are very awkward Pre-6. All it can take is a dash or flash and they escape or turn the fight since most of your damage is now lost. Even I feel bad ganking sometimes because I know there is a good chance it is just a waste of time and reveals your position on the map. Generally speaking, these are the steps you should take for a gank as Talon that will give you a solid chance of success.

1. Use your E to path to the lane you want to gank to avoid vision. Try to track the enemy jungler or else you may put a piece of terrain on cooldown and ruin any chance of escaping if they are stronger.

2. Identify if you need to use a side hop or just walk up to them/the path they take to escape. Often you will prefer to wait for your teammate(s) to initiate a trade just before you appear to put enemies in a more killable state and have their abilities on cooldown.

3. Throw your Rake first just a little below max range so they can't simply out-run it. You should be either from the side or diagonally behind them for a good W angle. You will usually opt for a Standard Ranged combo as you have little damage anyway if they flash your W2. If the target can heal or is about to enter a brush, use Ignite for anti-heal +/ vision unless they are definitely dead. If the enemy uses a dash or flash while you are airborne, there is a good chance your W will hit them as your Q dash will usually follow them to their destination, pulling your W at the same time. Be careful with following up on a ranged Q if you cannot guarantee 3 stacks.

—

For dives, you prefer someone else to tank as you are melee and have no flash. You should wait for ally CC set-up or whatever they have to engage. W either right after or predict just before when they will do so (as some CC don’t last long), Ignite if needed, and then Q → AA. You could also just use a Flower combo.

When executing extremely low-HP targets, you can go for E → Q → AA (Ignite) → W to minimise their chance of reacting. This is usually used on very - VERY - low targets recalling or greedily staying for a wave.

Mid Game: Playstyle

Summary: soak resources when possible, dominate sidelanes and rotate or catch vulnerable people who respond to or are rotating to respond to your side-lane pressure. Don't take meaningless fights - always prepare them properly using your fast wave-clear and map mobility. Do not hesitate to completely take over a lane if your laner is more useful elsewhere.

Mid game is often where Talon shines because he has the items to be an oppressive Assassin, quickly going to where he wants to be. At this point Talon has the damage to duel or one shot people so make the best use of it while you can.

At 15-20 minutes, Your target cs/min:
[*] 6 cs/min and under ONLY IF early was rough and you were trying to get out of it by retaliation kills.
[*] 6cs/min to 7cs/min if you're applying good presure or under pressure yourself, for example support roaming.
[*] 7 cs/min to 8 cs/min if you are balancing ganks well without losing out on camps much. You should be applying some good pressure but make a judgement whether you should begin to farm more and focus on objectives or continue making plays.
[*] 8 cs/min and above is usually when you are ahead and can delete both camps and waves. You are putting a lot of resources on yourself so do not throw. This farming pace is very good if you want to cherry-pick your fights and minimise any chance of throwing by only showing where you are strong with R up.

For the first 10 minutes of a game, going 4-6 cs/min is not unusual because some games can be really chaotic or you had a bad start. Just keep in mind you will need to accelerate the farming rate sooner or later.

Late Game: 28m+

Closing the game is something a lot of players struggle on, especially in lower elos and when playing assassins. As every draft is different, I can’t really tell you a magic trick to close out games.

While you still can, you should be pressuring side lanes and trying to make picks there. If they are too strong or tanky at this point, avoid them and start targeting someone else or elsewhere. Identify the weak points in their team comp and team members in the current state of the game and try to abuse it. Despite your R being 30-45 seconds at this stage, try to make only meaningful picks as this is still a considerable window of vulnerability.

If your team lacks engage power, sometimes you will have to go first. Just make sure your team is not too far and be aware the enemies will ward potential flanks.

Usually what I like to do late game is purely split push. You must create an opening to be able to find one, and that is by pressuring a side of the map to drag at least 1 enemy to you. When you know where everybody is on the map, it is a lot easier to make decisions and you can use this for split-second decision making such as immediately pathing to force a fight with a man advantage, clearing vision in the jungle or river and finding a spot and waiting to ambush anyone passing by.

When there is a 40 second timer before Baron or soul point Dragon, this is an extremely valuable window to make a pick due to long death timers. In other words, you should be looking for an assassination, moving and preparing for it at no later than 1 minute.

When enemies are taking Baron, it can be quite hard to team fight as the invading team unless you are ahead. If there is little to lose from attempting a potential Baron steal, you usually want to detour and evade vision; one blind spot is just behind the wall to the right of top tri-brush. Activate Ghostblade for E speed and hope for the best with a Ranged Q, R and Smite, timing it simultaneously as fast as you can for the best chance of stealing it. With R, this is approximately 1.2k-1.3k damage so you usually want to E in when Baron is 1.5k-1.8k or so as it takes a second to land in the pit and be able to use abilities.

When you have the ability to win and kill most - hopefully all - of the enemy team doing baron, if your team can't move in head-on then detour and look for a flank - your Baron smite steal is not the best so, unless heavily disadvantaged, go and try to win the fight instead.

If enemies have taken Baron already, the best thing to do is to IMMEDIATELY LOOK FOR A PICK while their guard is down after they reset, no matter how deep in their jungle or lane. You want to create a numbers advantage ASAP to waste their Baron buff time, though remember to play by your R CD so don't group too early if you don't need to. Making a pick is absolutely tilting for the enemy team as you have turned the tides of map pressure and stalled their Baron siege.

Split Pushing

Note: copied and pasted from last year but should be relevant

Split pushing is always the best strategy for Talon’s mid game and often late game also. As both Talon and Talon Jungle, I strongly advise to avoid team fights and utilise side lanes. Ideally, you do not have resource intensive teammates and rather champs that can make your splitting difficult to punish, such as Shen, Ziggs. These are the real champs that synergize with Talon for macro reasons. Still, don’t hesitate to steal a lane from your team and use it for your own gains. You will be rewarding them with a higher chance of victory.

A lot of people assume it’s bad or wrong to split as the jungler. This is true for a lot of champs but not mobile assassins, especially one who is a strong carry like Talon. Talon’s W can delete any wave in mid game so you can easily pressure a sidelane if nobody is responding or force them to respond if they don’t want to lose waves. Due to your mobility even while attacking turrets, you can always continue to push and try to take down turrets especially if nobody is responding. If the enemy responding is weak and easily killed, go for a dive if free. T1 turrets give you a lot of access or control over the enemy jungle and T2 turrets are very rewarding in Gold, along with the waves the enemies are losing. Alternatively, you can enter Fog of War to disappear from the map, making the enemy team afraid. This is also viable when someone has come to defend against your split push and you can try to force them to leave the lane again especially if they have no TP. You can attempt to catch them away from the turret or just push another wave after lurking in the shadows if you want a better reset.

Split pushing is essential for Talon as it will usually result in one or more of the enemy team splitting up to respond to your pressure or attempt to catch you which is a waste of time against Talon (players will often chase you emotionally). Due to Talon’s fast and sometimes potentially untrackable movement on the map, this pressure creates an opening for you to either pick the enemy that is rotating towards you or you to force a fight with a numbers advantage. If your wave is not too close to the enemy turret, you can often just pick and bully the laner until someone else responds but by then you have taken enough resources for a power spike.

Always abuse your combination of strong wave clear, high side lane pick potential and fast map movement together. Side lane waves must be attended to when on your side or roughly in an even state prior to most team fights except if an important objective is already up. This is especially true late game in case a team fight goes wrong so they cannot push too far or even end the game with TP.

Note: do not go for a side-lane if your team can, should and want to contest a Neutral Objective at 30s or less.

Team Fighting

I'll add some time later.

In short...
Priority target identification; find out who is most important to kill THAT IS ALSO KILLABLE
Evaluation of both teams; find out what your role is in the fight by seeing what is strong and weak in both teams
Patience; do not be hasty because one CC can lose you the fight and perhaps the game Good execution; practice your combos so good decision is rewarded.

Combos

If you’re learning Talon then you must learn combos as his damage is back-loaded on his passive. Your kill potential is enormously heightened if you are always prepared to pull off the right combos in all kinds of situations. As you will usually be running Ignite instead of Flash, you will be a bit more limited in how you want to pull off combos, especially without terrain or structures. Generally speaking, for instant burst combos you should use R as part of the sequence, however good Talon players will know when to hold R for another rotation or abstain from using R completely to be able to stay and continue pressuring on the map safely. The latter is a lot easier to do when you have Conqueror or when you are considerably ahead of the target(s). Being highly versatile and able to choose and use optimal combos or even adapt and switch combos mid-fight is the highest micro skill cap for Talon.

As Ignite is preferred over Flash for Talon Jungle, I will not cover any Flash combos. I HIGHLY suggest practicing some of these combos in the Practice Tool to help engrain these combos into muscle memory and hopefully you will be able to use them and make split-second adaptations in the right scenarios. While a lot of Talon combos exclude E, I’ve chosen to include E if they play an important role in the sequence to make up for the lack of Flash Combos.

Important notes: while Ranged Q combos will deal slightly less damage than their Melee Q counterparts due to the lack of AA reset and Crit Q, Talon is still a melee champ and will often need to utilise the gap closing form of Q. You may want to exclude the AA before Q → AA as this slows down your combo. For burst combos where you include using R, Ignite and Smite should only be used before R or when your combo has broken your stealth, otherwise they can mess up your R targeting causing them to converge on yourself rather than the enemy.

Note: a lot of combos are supposed to be here but I'd rather post them with gifs.

Prowler's Claw Combos

Prowler’s Melee Combo
W → Prowler’s → AA → Q → AA
Assuming they are dashless, this is a free melee combo you can guarantee from a distance thanks to Prowler's dash. Use R just before the last AA if you need more damage.

Prowler’s Sticky Combo
Q → Prowler’s → R → W → AA
Here, use Prowler’s when you know the enemy will dash away right after you jump on them with rQ, such as Ezreal. Use R mid-air and finish the combo off with W → AA. Don't use if they can easily dash again as this combo is relatively weak and can put you in danger.

Prowler Flower
W → Prowler’s – Q → R → AA
Much like the Prowler's melee combo, except you know they will dash after your Prowler's, putting them into your ranged Q proximity.

Prowler False Melee Flower
W → Prowler’s → AA → Q → AA → R
Fadeaway. Potentially misses the R2 damage in exchange of stealth escape/reposition. Rememeber to recast if you are safe and need R2 to finish them off.

Prowler’s Hidden Rake
W (behind you) → E → Prowler’s → R → AA → Q → AA
You've seen it before. The coolest Prowler's combo for Talon. The reason for this is to minimize the reaction time the enemy has for the combo by removing Talon's W cast animation from the combo. Talon's W2 does ~2x as W1 and is easy to hit if you secured the Prowler's dash behind them. If you are fed enough, you don't need to use R for a squishy target as an amplified melee combo is quite lethal.

Here are some old video examples: https://twitter.com/Kaostanza/status/1350073366426882050

Advanced Tricks and Combos

Melee Q Buffer against CC
Even against displacement CC, Talon can buffer his mQ. Early game this is not always the best idea as your Q has a high CD. Good for clutch kills before they can get away or if you have high CDR anyway.

Dash AA Buffer against Stun
You can also buffer your AA after ranged Q when stunned. I’m not exactly sure what the condition is. Maybe you need 3 stacks of Passive for some reason or you need to be in Attack Range at the point of which you are stunned but I’ve seen it before.

Parkour Animation Cancel - E → Q buffer
You can shorten the animation of E right before you land with a rQ input buffer on an enemy target that is within range of your E landing destination. I would only use this if you are chasing someone and cannot secure a Standard Ranged combo from the point of landing. You can follow up with the rest of a Leap combo.

E Sleep Buffer
When Zoe or Lillia makes you tired, sleepy, whatever it’s called before you fall ASLEEP, you can use E to buffer the WHOLE of E animation, 720 backflipping with your eyes closed and having a wet dream. This allows you to slightly zone them with a W just before you press fall asleep mid-E and forces them to come deeper afterwards if they want to follow-up. The cool thing about this is your E will actually continue until you're at the original destination, however you will often visually be airborne. Your E skill is actually considered to be complete despite the frame being frozen (unless you don't input any commands) by the time ASLEEP is finished therefore you are able to use abilities as if on the ground.

E Buffer against CC Animation Cancel + AA Buffer
If an enemy is within Talon’s Attack Range (125) of your E destination, you can actually buffer AAs! I’m not sure when this became a thing or if it was like this from the start, but this can be useful in very specific cases. You do not need to be CC’d to buffer the AA but it still works the same - even when ASLEEP!

Secret Tips

Some of these aren't Talon specific but should help you to climb.

[*] Do not let your team bait you into bad ideas. If your decision turns out to be a mistake, you learn from it.
[*] Do not rely on your expectation of how your teammates should play. Solo Queue is extremely RNG so be flexible.
[*] Believe in your ability to carry. You locked in a carry champ so take on the role and carry the team. Take the resources you need and try your best to deliver the team the victory.
[*] Remain as calm as you can and keep trying to identify ways to win throughout the game.
[*] Take note of players who are playing emotionally if you can. Exploit them or manipulate them to play poorly. They are a lot more predictable when emotional.
[*] Dodge idiots and lost drafts in CS.
[*] FOCUS ON YOURSELF. Ignore the factors you can't control and you are bound to improve.